Badwater Forum

I don't see your name there. :wink:

I'm still hoping for 07. Lower back pain took me out of the AC100 much too early. I just could not make the climbs without huge discomfort. Oh well... I will try a 24 hour next month. I expect that will go much better. If it does, then I likely will get serious about my BW solo for next summer.

Hi Marcia,

Hugh Murphy just added my name to the solo list for July 1, 2007.

Hope you're able to be out there next year.

Happy Trails,

Connie Karras, 2006 Crew Member
Bill LaDieu, 54:50

Marcia,

I'm excited and looking for crew...........

So why has it been so quiet here since BW?

Other than David Harper posting his race report, there hasn't been any discussion....

Connie

In a weak moment while Marcia and I were driving home from a shopping trip I said that I thought that running Badwater would be fun.  Next thing I knew I had been signed up. I had been half kidding Marcia, for the past few weeks, that if she got into Western States I would have to run Badwater in her place. Well Marcia didn't win the lottery so somehow we decided that we would both do it together.

Oh well, if a Badwater Solo--is it a solo if two people do it together?--doesn't kill me keeping up with Marcia probally will. Time to start training! July 1, 2007 isn't very far away.

John Rasmussen

John,

Ahhhh.....weak moments.  

They usually precede my strongest ones!

Are you and Marcia planning to ascend Whitney or stop at the portals?

Juli and I are going to attempt to summit instead of stopping at the portals and in the event one or both of us experiences AMS we are going to have a back-up plan and apply for 2-day permits in case we need to stop at Trailhead overnight to acclimate.

I got an education this year trying to ascend with Randy Dietz the morning after Bill's finish.  I had done alot of running in the Cascade Ranges in WA state and Randy had not been above 6,000 ft. and he summited with no problem, so I assumed I'd have no problem.  What I didn't realize was that there is a big difference in elevations of 8-9,000 ft. (where I ran/hiked most of the time in the Cascade Ranges) and 10-12,000 (not to mention the 14,500 ft. of Whitney's summit).  

I experienced moderate AMS, beginning with mild symptoms at about 10,000 ft.  By the time I reached Trail Camp around 12,000 ft., I vomited, got diarrhea, and was staggering as if drunk.  I stupidly kept ascending, thinking I could put up with the discomfort as I have a high pain threshhold and then once I summited I would descend ASAP.  Do not ever continue to ascend if experiencing AMS; I knew better but kept going because I was alone and was in a confused state and not capable of good judgment.  A couple at Trail Camp saw me struggling and followed me up the switchbacks and advised me to descend immediately.  I instead sat down on the trail and waited for Randy to descend as he was ahead of me and I wanted to be sure he made it safely - that's how confused one can become when experiencing mountain sickness.  Then about 15 or so minutes later, a very nice gentleman who was with another climber and who Randy and I met as we began our ascent, came down as he was a little ahead of me and found me (he was unable to summit as well due to AMS) and we descended together as the lightning storms came early that day and everyone above Trailhead was advised to descend if they hadn't summited.  We made it down okay but I was dehydrated and confused. I kept drinking water but by that time it was too late.  I will never forget his kindess leading me down to the portals.  I also can't believe the speed with which we both descended considering our AMS symptoms.  We were frightened of the lightning but below Trail Camp it's not a major issue as we later came to realize.    

I'd never had that kind of problem with mountain sickness and was shocked.  There's no rhyme or reason to it from all the research I have done since this experience and from talking to Lisa Bliss, MD and other medical professionals....

So, for those of you at this forum who will be going to Death Valley for the first time or who have been there but are planning to summit Whitney for the first time without ever having been at an elevation above the portals, I highly suggest you do some homework and be sure you're acclimated appropriately if you plan to ascend with a 1 day permit; otherwise, apply for a 2 day to allow for an overnight stay either at Trail Camp or a lower elevation, if needed, before you conclude the ascension.  The trail itself is not terribly challenging; the impediment will be the altitude if in fact it does become an issue.  All of the literature states there is no correlation between fitness level and frequency of mountain sicknesses, so just being in great shape is often not enough.

I'd hate to see the same thing happen to someone else if it was preventable.  Also, don't climb alone.

Happy Trails,

Connie Karras

2006 Crew/pacer, Bill LaDieu - 54:50
2007 Solo

Marcia and I are planning for the top--and hopefully back down to the Portal. Not sure at this point whether we are planning a continuous trip to the summit or waiting a day before attempting. I've got a lot of training to do and really have no idea what my pace is going to be which makes it hard to plan permits.

It took us almost 24 hours to make it to the summit and back down this year. It took us considerably longer on the descent than to make it to the top. We postponed our attempt a day--good thing because hail and lightening turned back the groups that tried that day.  Getting a new permit delayed our start until about 9:00 A.M. and we didn't reach the summit until 7:00 P.M.  The descent was difficult with black ice in many spots. We made it back to the Portal just before 9:00 A.M.

Marcia and I have climbed Whitney a number of times, mostly by the mountaineers route.  Two times we had to rescue individuals.  One was because the individual got hit by a rock--broken ribs and punctured lung. Amazingly, he was able to walk down the steep section with assistance and was helicopter evacuated from Iceberg Lake.  The second was a group that went up the wrong mountain! One of them got stuck in a steep chute. He had been holding on with his fingers in dirt--just above a dropoff--for about an hour when Marcia rescued him. We all spent a very cold night sharing sleeping bags. Luckily, no one died.

Mt. Whitney is a mountain that needs to be taken seriously.  Most of the time it is forgiving but the hazards are greater than most people realize. Altitude is one of the issues and it is sometimes hard to tell whether it is altitude or exertion that is making you feel bad. One thing that can promote the symptoms of altitude sickness is hydration and food. Treat the summit climb just like the rest of the crossing and monitor fluids and salt--drink frequently. The altitude can dehydrate you much faster than you realize and you don't notice it in the cooler weather. I think hydration packs, or hand bottles, really help at higher altitudes. When I've carried a water bottle in a pack I end up guzzling and getting side stitches and generally start feeling bad. I suspect this can promote altitude sickness or at least you end up feeling like you have altitude sickness. I also suspect that your body does not absorb water as easily at higher altitudes.

--John

John,

I'll bet those individuals were grateful you were there to rescue them...so glad no one died.  I never tried the mountaineer's route - maybe with more climbing experience, someday.

Yes, Whitney (or any mountain) is nothing to take lightly; that's why I posted what I did about my experience. 

I did alot of research before climbing this year and despite knowing to bring plenty of water and eat carbs and climb slowly (rushing can contribute to mountain sickness as I'm sure you know) I still succumbed, and I had plenty of experience at a thousand feet above the portal elevation unlike the fella I climbed with who made it just fine to the summit and who hadn't been over 6,000 ft. in his life.  I've read about experienced mountaineers succumbing.  Go figure.   

I didn't take Diamox, which doesn't prevent mountain sickness. but I did take two aspirin a few hours prior to the climb, made sure I was hydrated and not glycogen depleted.

I was, however, very sleep deprived.  I've asked several medical professionals if that had something to do with the mountain sickness and the answer is the same across the board:  that there's no way to know.  I also gained alot of weight, that I have since taken off, the couple of months prior to the race, but was told that had nothing to do with it. 

I was so hyped from crewing and pacing that when my crewing partner and I returned to Stovepipe to try to sleep, we ended up getting bags of ice instead and then when we did finally try to sleep, it lasted maybe an hour and I never lost consciousness...just laid there with my mind racing, waiting for the alarm to ring!  I was on an adrenaline rush no doubt...

Then the second time we tried to sleep we parked near Father Crowley for 40 minutes and again...I couldn't sleep!  Totally wired.  So I didn't *really* sleep until after Bill's finish.  I drove the crew van down the portals after his finish to the motel in Lone Pine and was in a daze...I told everyone the next day that I was on autopilot - I could speak and drive just fine but their voices sounded like the teacher in "Peanuts," you know, it sounded like this unintelligible "wa wa wa wa wa wa wa." 

I awakened at 3am the next morning to summit Whitney and probably shouldn't have done so...but frankly, since I'm planning a solo and then going on for a summitting I'm going to surely be just as sleep-deprived (if not more so of course) so I think what I learned from that experience is to get some quality sleep of some sort, whatever that means, prior to the summit attempt.  I'll probably figure out what that means "on the job" and take things as they come as there's no way to figure that out right now.

You know, John, this discussion brings up a question...I'm wondering if those who have attempted to summit just after reaching the portals have developed AMS to a greater degree than those who have attempted the summit the day after?

I'd appreciate anyone's input here.

Thanks and Happy Trails,

Connie Karras

2006 Crew/pacer, Bill LaDieu - 54:50
2007 Solo

P. S.  The mountain is to be respected.  The Daus-Weber/Jones crewing guide discusses AMS, HACE and HAPE, and I recommend the newbies here purchase one; moreoever, there is of course alot of information on the net about preventing AMS so it doesn't progress to HACE and HAPE.